Part two of a two-part interview with former Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force, Bob Gaylor

  • Published
  • By Senior Airman Clark Staehle
  • 100th Air Refueling Wing Public Affairs
The Marauder Online staff sat down with the fifth chief master sergeant of the Air Force, Bob Gaylor, to discuss the Air Force's current state of affairs. Chief Gaylor served as chief master sergeant of the Air Force from 1975 to 1977, when he provided counsel regarding welfare, utilization and progress of the enlisted corps to then-Secretary of the Air Force John C. Stetson and then-Chiefs of Staff of the Air Force Gen. Davis C. Jones and Gen. Lew Allen Jr. The following is part two of two parts from that interview:

Q: I noticed in your biography that you were a military training instructor. Did you choose to become a training instructor? 

Chief Gaylor: No. You see, what happened was, if I can take you back to the mid '50s... many of the TIs at Lackland (Air Force Base, Texas) were young one- and two-stripe Airmen kept there at basic training because they were so sharp. So here comes a young Airman to basic training, "Wow, he's sharp! Let's keep him here as a TI." And so a rather large majority of the TIs in the '50s were one- and two-stripe Airmen- tremendous enthusiasm, no experience! They'd never been anywhere. They couldn't talk about the Air Force, all they knew about was Lackland. So somebody decided, somebody in their wisdom, said, "We need to replace all those with more seasoned Airmen- staffs, techs- more rank, more experience. Where are we going to get them? Let's grab the first 1,500 who come back from overseas." 

So I'm coming out of Korea, I'm a cop, thinking I'm going to be a cop. I get orders to Lackland. I get there, thinking I'm going to be a cop. They said, "You're now a TI." Well how does that happen? I got caught up in a transition. Next thing you know, most of the one- and two-stripe Airmen were gone, now it was all staffs, techs and masters. 

Now if you go there, you'll find quite a few senior airmen, but no one- or two-stripers. You'll find senior airmen, mostly staffs and techs, but mostly staffs, because we want that experience. We want people who can stand up in front of a new flight and say, "I've been to Keesler (Air Force Base, Miss.), and I've been overseas, I've been to England." And the young Airmen of course couldn't say that. They were very sharp, but they didn't have any experience.

Q: How has the Air Force changed since you were in?
 
Chief Gaylor: It's about two primary words: training and technology. The advancements in both areas are absolutely impressive. Every office I walk into now, I see the gadgets, I see the devices, I see the computers, I see the equipment. In the maintenance field, security forces, wherever, high-tech has taken over. Anyone under 25 years old doesn't realize that; they were born into it. They popped into the world and maybe Mom and Dad had a television in every room, a VCR and a computer. Take it from those of us born before 1970: we had a typewriter and a telephone - and the telephone, you might've had to go through the operator, "Can you please ring..." 

But you know, if you think for a moment the importance of bringing the two together, all the equipment in the world is of no value unless somebody knows how to operate and maintain it. And all the knowledge of operating it is of no value if you don't have the equipment, so you have to bring the two together. So, we bring in the equipment, we train people how to operate it and we've got mission accomplishment. That's great. And that's why you can do with fewer people.
 
I'll give you a good example: I can remember when we'd post guards around the munitions storage area. We had to take 35 guards and it would take 45 minutes. Now, you go to a munitions storage area, you'll find sensors, monitors, closed-circuit TV and one motorized patrol, so it takes fewer people. Technology replaced people. 

My concern with that is that we become, if we're not careful, like robots, to where we put people into pieces of equipment and forget we're human. They have needs, they have feelings. And so we don't dare walk by and say, "This piece of equipment cost $100,000," we have to remember that the Airman also is important to us. So, sometimes we give the wrong message.
 
I'm a human guy, I don't understand technology. My VCR's blinking 12:00 and I don't know how to stop it. But I understand people, and so I'm a people person; I'm a motivator; I'm a caring person. The equipment will take care of itself. You can have it. I don't like it. But I know what motivates people, and so I'm asking the Air Force to maintain the balance: high-tech/high-touch, high-tech/high-touch, and not sacrifice the human side of it, because of our interest in technology. It's just simply a balance: people/equipment, people/equipment, working together, and making sure we're using the equipment to take care of the people, not using the equipment to replace people.

Q: Please don't feel like you have to answer this, Chief. What was your most embarrassing moment in uniform? 

Chief Gaylor: I've had several. I'm a very extroverted guy and so I'm capable of stepping on my tongue. I've had several embarrassing moments. I've called people by the wrong name, not purposely. 

When I interviewed to be Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force, there were five of us. And they took us alphabetically, 30 minutes each at a time, down the hall in the Pentagon. There were three generals, a four-star and two three-stars. We were told to report in, and that we would be there for 30 minutes and they would ask us questions. I was fourth, alphabetically. So I go down the hall, and I was appropriately nervous, you know, sweaty palms, because I was interviewing to be the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force.
 
And I go in there for 30 minutes, and I thought I did quite well, I thought I answered their questions. And the four-star said, "Chief, thank you for coming. We'll make the announcement in a few days. Unless you have something else, you're dismissed." 

So, I'm thinking, "How do I get out of here?" You know, you're leaving the room, you don't want to get up and say, "See you guys!" So, I thought, "Why not shake their hands and thank them?" because I was sitting right there by them. And, I turn to a three star, and said, "Thank you colonel." I called a three-star general colonel. 

I stood back up and said, "Isn't that great?" I said, "I came all the way from San Antonio to meet this board. I put on the best uniform I had, I got a hair cut, I bought new ribbons. I thought I did fairly well and I mess it up just trying to get out of the room." I said, "Please, may I start over?" It was embarrassing. I went back down the hall and I said to my friend, "You'll never guess what I did." And he said, "What'd you do, Bob?" "I called a general, colonel." He said, "Oh, scratch Gaylor!" 

About 10 days later, I was called. They said, "You're in, you've got the job." And later, in September of the year, in '77, that general at a banquet in Washington said to me, "Chief, I want you to know you got my vote. You really messed up that day. You don't call a general colonel. But, I liked your poise, I like the way you handled it, I like the way you recovered. You admitted you messed up and you asked for permission to correct. When you walked out of the room, I said to the other two, 'I think we've found our man.'" 

That's a powerful message. I tell audiences today we're all subject to screw up, and the best thing probably to do is to say, "Hey, that didn't come out right. Give me another shot at it. I didn't intend for it to happen that way." So it was a powerful message. Maybe it was meant to happen. It taught me that when I do mess up and it's not on purpose, the best thing probably to say is, "Hey, I messed up. Let me have another shot at it." 

So I am embarrassed less anymore, because I've learned how to say, "Hey, I screwed up." So I just think it's a powerful message to be willing to admit that we're all fallible, we're all human, we're all frail in the sense that we're subject to make a mistake with good intentions. But that surely would be at the top of the list of embarrassing moments.
There have been others. As a cop in Thailand, I disobeyed an order on a convoy to find a crashed airplane. I was leading the convoy, there were ambulances and fire trucks we we're trying to find a crashed plane off base. The convoy commander gave the command by radio, "Turn around and go back. Darkness is coming." I chose to keep going. I thought I could find the crash. I buried a government truck in a ditch. The left rear was clear down under water. 

And so not only did I not turn around and go back to base, I've now got a brand-new truck half buried in a ditch. I was scared. I had just made chief; I was a new chief that year. My career flashed before my eyes. I had two Thai guards and an interpreter with me. The interpreter said, "What're you going to do now?" I said, "I'm not sure. Obviously I've got to get someone with a truck to pull us out of the ditch." They went into a village, and there came an elderly man in what must have been a 1935 Chevrolet held together with baling wire. Fortunately he was able to pull me out. But then I thought I might've damaged the truck, broke the axle. 

We got back to base about nine o'clock and I'm scared, I was embarrassed. So the next day the major (who was also the convoy commander) called me. He said, "Chief, what happened? Where did you go?" I said, "Sir, I thought I could find the crash scene. I kept going." He said, well you realize I had given the command to turn around?" "I knew that." "Well," he said, "you sort of violated my order." I said, "Yes sir. I did that." I didn't know what he was going to say next. He said, "Chief, I've seen you around the base and I've always thought you were a pretty sharp guy. You've always impressed me; you've had your act together. This one's on me. But if it ever happens again ..." I said, "Sir, I've learned. You don't have to say any more." I was scared, I was embarrassed because I had done something wrong.
 
Here's the message: is to learn from that and say I will not do that again. I will not call a general colonel and I will not disobey an order from a convoy commander. As long as you learn, it's fine. If I had said, "Hey sir, my decision's better than yours. You might've been the convoy commander, but I'm a chief," he'd have every right to hammer me. But I said, "Yes sir, I screwed up." 

People ask me now, "Have we become a one-mistake Air Force?" I hope not. Because the day we do, we're in trouble. I don't condone criminal action, but I think if the intent was honorable, above board, and it didn't come out right, sometimes we just need to say, "What did we learn from this?" And the person says, "I've learned next time to think a little more clearly. I'll not do that again." We should say, "Good enough, this one's on me." I think there is mitigation, and I think that we don't want to hammer people when the intent was obviously for it to come out better than it did. 

That's another of the messages I share. If I had been jailed for every offense I committed, I'd probably still be in jail. I think we're all subject to sometimes lose control of our common sense, but I think good leadership recognizes that and says, "OK, as long as you've learned from this, and as long as the lesson stays with you, we're good to go."

Q: Talking to you right now, you're obviously very excited, you're very active in your life. What advice do you give troops to get to your age, 76, and still have that vitality?
 
Chief Gaylor: I have a talk called "Making the right investments" and I cover three
things.
 
Physical fitness: I tell people the body you have now is the only one you'll ever get. As far as I know, you can't turn it in and get a new one, so you may want to take care of it. You're going to have it all of your life. You may want to take care of it to the best of your ability, so in your odd years, you'll still be able to get around. 

Financial stability: You need to have systematic savings. You need to make sure you have power of attorney and a will and you need to make sure that you are in a financial status that you are comfortable and you don't have to worry each month, "Am I going to be able to make the payments or are they going to repossess?" 

Education: Invest in education- the Community College of the Air Force.
 
And yet, these are things people said to me when I was 20, and I'm not sure I listened. Maybe you have to learn through age, I don't know. But these are the messages I share. A long successful healthy life requires some up-front investments. You can't wait until you're 70 and say, "Now I've got to get in shape." It's probably too late. You've got to sustain it on an on-going basis. 

The same (goes) with financial stability by making the right investments. I see people today making the wrong investments. "Oh, I just got that new piece of equipment." "Oh, I'm spending money on a 50-inch television." They're not making the right investments. And then when they face financial hardships difficulty, (they say) "Why did I do that? What was I thinking. Maybe I should've gone with the 42-inch television instead. 

The same thing (applies) in the career. I see Airmen who get out and then say, "I probably made the wrong decision, maybe I should've stayed in." You should have thought about that before you go out. You need to weight it, you need to analyze and evaluate it. You need to put it out on the table and ask, "What am I dealing with here?"